Cramped Seating Can 'Trap' and 'Trip' Passengers During Emergency Evacuation'

More space needed for today's overweight, aging passengers, study concludes

The combination of larger passengers crammed into tightly packed seats could delay emergency evacuation and contribute to potentially fatal embolisms on long flights. Providing more space between seats, and redesigning them to better accommodate persons of widely varying sizes, could have enormous cost implications to the airlines.
A recent study concludes that economy-class passengers are so tightly packed together that they cannot assume a correct "brace" position for emergency landing, and the seats themselves can be obstacles to quick emergency evacuation of the cabin. The current minimum spacing and design standards for transport-category aircraft allow for too-tight seating, and new standards are needed regarding minimum seat width and a minimum area for feet.

http://www.aviationtoday.com/reports/crampedseat.htm

Barbara... Good post. This has been an ongoing argument (discussion) for sometime now, dating
back to when the classes of service on board the airplane began. It escalated in the 70s with the
advent of the wide bodied aircraft, with study upon study conducted by this and that organizations. I don’t know where I stand (or sit) regarding the issue. There is merit on all sides, and I will always lean toward the safety issue.

The airline industry, is a business. And like all business, it must be accountable. We inevitablely face the risk - reward side of finance, which has been discussed on your site, as well as others. Where the correct answers lie is also an ongoing process. I know yours and Marks, and find no fault. However, cost vs income is still a reality, and it does not take a marketing strategist to understand this. Thus, the more seats, the better revenue per seat mile, and the less cost per seat mile. Reduce the seats to increase room, and revenue must be increased to achieve the same revenue stream...........Who pays, the customer.

Seat pitch, etc. to me always seemed to be tighter on Foreign Flag carriers, (I flew for a US Flag Carrier), particularly on narrow body equipment, which frequently, was in an all EY
configuration. Oriental carriers, EY class seating on all equipment type was tighter, much so that I, being tall, had great difficulty with my legs. Occasionally I would have to dead head on JAL from OSA to TYO, and often, they would put us in EY. (Getting back at the competition?) The
same was true when having to dead head on European carriers, but more noticeable on the single class aircraft. Wide body seemed to have more leg room.

Don't hold your breath. I don't anticipate seeing any major changes anytime soon. Unfortunately, I think you know what it will take to see meaningful action.

Thanks Cecil.
It should be up to the FAA to set better standards as they are supposed to be the regulatory agency and as such should not permit seating to impede a quick escape if that becomes necessary. As you've said, the airlines are a business and as such will first and foremost look after the bottom line. That is especially true right now when profits are lean if not non-existant. I wonder if there will ever be a day when the FAA becomes more proactive and has zero tolerance for avoidable tragedies?

I have a much more limited experience with traveling to Europe than you do for sure, but must say that you are right that the seating seemed even tighter particularly on a commuter flight in Ireland with a very reputable carrier (who has never had a crash).

Take care and have a good weekend.

Barbara

After my first flights, I saw that there was not much to see.
I am since then requesting an aisle seat, and counting the rows to the next emergency exit. Just in case.
But with my 1.65 m , I do not have the problem of Cecil, though I must admit, it is sometimes very tight.
Airlines should douse the pax with olive oil. Sardines can be packed very tightly.

:-)

Maybe the airline reservations systems could be modified to consider passenger height and weight in seat assignment. Sitting in a middle seat in cattle class is okay when you don't have to sit between actual cattle. On a recent flight, I sat in the last row, between a cow and a horse. The guy in front of me had his seat reclined. If I was claustraphobic, I might have had an episode of some kind.

Another thought on the subject: They should get rid of reclining seats in coach. When you're packed in like sardines, having the seat in front of you 8 inches from your face is kinda like having the lid of the can closed.

Of course, full flights are where the profits are. Does anybody know the rule of thumb for how many passengers are needed, on the average, to break even?

Two really simple suggestions:

1. On full flights, add an announcement reminding passengers to be courteous to people in middle seats.
2. Disclose average occupancy % for flights, days and routes, thereby enabling passengers who are uncomfortable in crowds to choose less crowded flights. This would also benefit handicapped passengers and those travelling with small children - an in turn, benefit the rest of us as well.

Of course the ATA would stridently oppose item 2., on the grounds that the information would benefit competitors. I know it's a tough competitive industry, but I have no sympathy for the augument that this kind of information should be withheld from consumers. Food companies didn't want to put nutrition information on their packages either. Too bad.

Hi Hank, I notice that people are really grabbing those aisle seats these days! If you are lucky enough to get one you have to be careful not to stick your arm out into the aisle especially when they bring the cart through. I've noticed that many flight attendants get angry if they bang into you!

We just made a very short trip to Phila. and I was surprised that not many people were flying this weekend. I also was surprised that I thought Phila airport's security had become more lax. I'm hoping that maybe that means they are just more efficient but have my doubts. A friend of mine who visited last weekend found that our airport here in Florida had tighter security and that was my experience as well. Seems like the efforts are not even throughout the different airports.

I really miss the days prior to Tara's death that
I actually loved to fly particularly with my family. Now it has become a very painful experience and though I do it when I have to, I find that I avoid it when it isn't absolutely necessary. There is just such an emptiness now when we return from a trip. I hope to see some major changes in this industry because the potential is great if the effort is made. The TSB pointed out that there should be no flammable materials on a plane. Fires such as the horrific one that occurred on sr111 simply wouldn't happen. One would think that would be a given. I was speaking to a safety expert recently that pointed out that though the FAA has issued ADs telling airlines to replace mylar insulation, they do not check to see if they are actually doing this. I was astounded. In other words they just trust the industry to follow these rules and do very little to check whether or not it is actually being done. That's the kind of attitude that must change.

Sometimes I feel like we are still in the Stone Age in regards to flying. People will look back 100 yrs. from now and think how awful the industry was and how backwards we were to accept the conditions that we do.

Sorry that this post is all over the map. Sometimes it is hard to say what one is trying to say on the web. I guess I am deeply saddened to see the airline industry in the state it is today at least from my perspective.

From Air Safety Week:

Experience the reality

With respect to cramped seating for the humblest passenger, Harold Caplan has a modest suggestion. Caplan, a long-time observer on the industry whose published writings on accident investigations, air safety and such date back to at least 1953, suggests that airline officials themselves should occasionally fly economy class. In a speech Feb. 27, 2001, at the "Aircraft Interiors Expo 2001," Caplan suggested a voluntary program with the following features:

Once each year, each airline board member and each line manager or chief pilot, each chief aircraft and engine designer, and each senior government safety regulator, should take a trip around the world seated in the cheapest part of the cabin.
The individual should, whenever and wherever possible, be accompanied by spouse, partner, and children.
The individual should participate in all procedures, to which the ordinary passenger peasantry is exposed (including the use of public transport to and from airports, queuing for check-in, queuing for security, immigration, customs and baggage retrieval)
Use of executive or VIP lounges would be prohibited. The individual and partner/family would be treated throughout as ordinary passengers.
"No good purpose would be served by requiring staff at lower levels to accept [this] voluntary commitment," Caplan said. "They already know how it is."

Caplan predicts should any chief designer, regulator or airline board member be bold enough to accept this challenge, it would not take very long before things improved for all passengers and new designs began to be drawn on the backside of airsickness bags.

Caplan related that he is not the only one propounding this experience. He recalled the opening remarks at an "Air Passenger Rights' symposium May 10, 2001, in Lisbon, Portugal, by Claudio Costa Pereira, secretary general of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICASO). Pereira opined, "I would guess that most of us travel primarily in business class or first class. We might be wise to travel more often in economy class and reacquaint ourselves with conditions in the back of the aeroplane. We might even feel a bit of air rage ourselves at times."

Caplan related, "So far as I know, there has not been any follow up to his remarks, [which were] aimed mainly at government officials and regulators in Europe." >> Caplan, tel. +44 (0) 1932 781 200 <<

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