I truly hope that BF will not be annoyed if I post this particular topic. It is not my intention to offend, merely to express my views as a Canadian neighbour.

I'll keep this brief. I am rather jet-lagged and brain dead, but I very much wanted to come on to an American site and express my feelings re the election. I and many, many Canadians & Europeans were, to say the least, dismayed at the U.S election results, but I must add many were not surprised. Here's hoping for the best, whatever that may be, with George Bush back for a second term in office. I was truly hoping that America would choose a commander in chief who would unite, not divide the United States, and indeed, the world at large. I could go on with my own personal feelings in regards to the Iraq war/occupation, the Bush administration and its war on terror, etc., but I shall politely digress.

It is an absolute shame that many Americans do not have the opportunity (or choose not to) to step outside their country at take a good hard look at it from the other side. I truly believe many fine Americans have absolutely no idea as to what utter, horrific damage your President and administration has caused your good name and standing in the world. We were gunning for Kerry all the way. That's not to say Kerry is the quitessential choice, but we rather admired his openness and percieved honesty, an element one does not pick up with the Bush/Cheney team.

Plus, I have to admit, I am a fierce fan of Kerry's wonderfully intelligent and outspoken wife, Teresa. At least she stands her ground and is willing to step up to the mark and argue her beliefs with passion, unlike the current 1950's "June Cleaver" subservient first lady that continues to occupy the President's mansion. I find it a shame and disgrace that many Americans find Teresa to be too assertive/aggressive. And why the hell should she not be?

Hardly suprising that California, New York, for example, went democratic, while the NRA lovin, NASCAR lovin, hunting lovin (I admit I am stereoptyping here just a wee bit) midwestern states, and Texas, a world unto itself....with the exception of the fine pals I have there, and I'm sure many others, who went Republican.

Another thing that very much disturbs me is the non-separation of Church and State in America today, which is the polar opposite of Canada and the EU. I find the extreme right wing Christian movement very disturbing, and potentially dangerous. I am especially disturbed by George Bush's statements that he has been advised by God?? That God is on the side of the Americans to battle terrorism. If one listens to extreme Islam fundementalists, one hears/reads a mirrored ideology.

I also fear the erosion of freedom of speech in America. I could cite many examples of those who have been "punished" and humiliated for not towing the Republican line. "You're either with us, or the terrorists" is the most bloody narrowminded, tunnelvisioned term I have heard in a long time. One only has to look back to the 1950's, with the toxic presence of McCarthyism to see how eroded individual rights have become. The thing is, if one person is punished/reprimanded for speaking out against the Bush admistration/doctrines, then in my opinion, EVERY American man, woman and child have lost their individual rights.

I am personally quite fearful of what lays in store for America and the globe for the next 4 years. My beef lies NOT with the American people (although I am upset at 50% of the voters, but again, given the FOX/CNN propoganda networks, I'm not surprised) but with you know who.

Here's hoping America can somehow, in some way pull together, as the polarization that exists there today is wrenching the country apart. I have many good American friends, and I love visiting the USA. I will be honest and state that I will not be holding my breath for the Bush administration to right the many wrongs they have committed. I will, however, cross my fingers and hope that come 2008, an enlightened
man or woman with integrity and true leadership skills shall emerge and lead the USA back to where it once was re world standing.

For those who support George W. Bush and Dick Cheney & Co., I shall respect your right to vote and choose the leader you obviously felt was the right man for the job. But I cannot agree with that choice. Not by a long shot.

God almighty, where are the Jimmy Carters and the Franklin D. Roosevelts? Two men of dignity, courage, integrity and good hearts.

Alas, I ramble on.

My best wishes to ALL Americans, well, with the exception of a few. Now now, I should be nicer than that!

Cheers, USA
J.O from Canada

J.O, Glad to see you're back safely. I don't mind if you comment on politics at all. Thanks for expressing your viewpoint! To be honest, though I used to vote in every election prior to Tara's death, I haven't done so since. I even used to take the kids with me because I thought it was so important to teach them how important voting is. Now I don't participate for my own personal reasons. All I can really say is that I felt both candidates were extremely weak. I keep hoping someone will come along who is sincere and has some integrity, a rare thing to find in political candidates these days. Thanks for taking the time to post. It's very much appreciated.

Barbara

Hello there, Barbara. I hope and trust you and your family have been well. Thank you for allowing me to come on here and vent! I do concur with your viewpoint re both candidates, although, as I stated, of the two I do strongly prefer Kerry/Democrats, no question about it, and for many reasons. Kerry, indeed I agree, was weak in many respects, and I was frustrated that he failed on some levels to effectively convey his mandate...hmmm, or perhaps his mandate should/could have been more structured and coherent. I must admit my preference may in fact stem from the fact that, like many people, it's the "Anyone But Bush" syndrome at work (although if I were an American, I would be a democrat if I chose to be politically active). You know, come to think of it, I'd rather have seen Teresa Heinz as a candidate! Man, I like that woman! I know she rubs quite a few people the wrong way, but it's the very qualities she possesses that annoy the hell out of people that I admire.

Many of my American friends feel that there is too narrow a gap between the Democrats and Republicans re ideals/policies, especially in 2004, and I suppose, as a Canadian Euro guy, I am not as quite up to speed in terms of a sound
grasp/knowledge of this. My parents were good friends of a late democratic senator and his wife, and I recall, even at a young age, admiring and respecting his viewpoints.

One element of American politics I freely admit I am in the dark about is your voting process.
It confuses me, and many Canadians. We just don't grasp the electoral college process, and how a candidate who can surpass his opponent in popular votes can end up losing with a lesser
e.c voting result. Oye vay.

Mind you, Canada is not one to talk. Our current Prime Minister, Paul Martin, is very weak in many respects, and the Conservative Party (opposition) leader, Stephen Harper is an extreme right-winged man who, like Bush & Co., marries his personal Christian beliefs with his party's mandate/doctrines. In J.O's world, that's a big no-no. (I'm so eloquent today)
For many liberals in Canada, our biggest fear is the next federal election. Should Harper and the conservatives come to power, they will no doubt closely align themselves with the Bush administration, and we can certainly not have that!

Alas, as my late beloved Father used to say,
"It's not one thing after another. It's the same damn thing over and over again". Hmm, indeed.

Yes, BF, I am back from Europe and I had a smashing, groovy, brilliant time. Thanks for your thoughts of my safe travels. Paris was.......oh, how do I say, Magnifico! Bene!
Bella! But, how could it NOT be, my dear, how could it not be? :-) Copenhagen was beautiful as ever, and I managed a side trip to Belgium, as I have not been to Brussels in quite a while. The restaurants there are superb.

Anyhow, I do go on, so I shall close here.
Here's a crazy Canuck sending you a big smile and good thoughts. Please tell Lyn Romano I say hello and hope she and her boys are well.

And now, my dear, it's back to the corporate grind.....ugh. Proposals, meetings, budgets,
presentations....yep, it's indeed the same damn thing over and over.

Kind regards,
J.O

P.S: I cannot find the last e-mail you sent me
(our system went down whilst I was away) but I shall look again and respond.

Glad you had a wonderful time on your trip- I expected that you probably would! I will also convey your kind words to Lyn Romano who has often expressed her appreciation for your very caring posts.

I used to be very passionate about politics but I just can't feel that way anymore. I think your very wise father summed it up in a nutshell-

quote:

---

It's the same damn thing over and over again"

---

Let's just hope that things don't get any worse than they already are. I'm definitely aware of how other countries feel towards the U.S. these days as I do check out their newspapers on the internet and have corresponded with people from Europe who have expressed tremendous dismay over Bush's decisions. My belief is that George Bush was re-elected because people post 9/11 here in the U.S., are terrified that we will be struck again by the terrorists and believe Bush will keep them safe. Unfortunately that may be the opposite of reality. Only time will tell us how these decisions today will affect the world tomorrow. I'm terrified to even think about it.

Thanks again for expressing your concerns- we like to hear from you.

Barbara

J.O. this site may help you to understand the electoral process. Each state is assigned a certain number of electoral votes- some more than others depending on the size of the state. To give you just one example, the state of Texas has 37 electoral votes. So if the majority of people in that state say vote for Bush, he gets all 37 electoral votes. Another smaller state like R.I. would only be worth about 4 so obviously the candidates spend more time campaigning in states that can win them the most votes. The problem is that if you say voted for Kerry in Ohio, your vote did nothing to get him elected. All the electoral votes go to Bush for winning the popular vote in that state. These electoral votes are not split up. It's either all or nothing no matter how close the race. In the end all these electoral votes are added up and once a candidate gets 270 electoral votes by adding up the states he has won and how much each is worth, he wins the election. The unfortunate part of this system is that once a state awards the candidate their electoral votes, the other person gets none of the votes no matte how close the race is.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BF,

Hello there, Barbara,

Thank you very much for taking the time to enlighten me on the American voting process.
I knew of some of the components and rules,
but never quite had a concise overview. Condiering the fact you are not particularily intersted in U.S politics now, I am grateful that you took the time out to reply.

You may find the following interesting. In the weekend papers here (and all over the internet) there were/are stories of record numbers of Americans applying for Canadian citizenship due to the re-election of one Mr. Dubya. Normally, the Canadian immigration offices handle 20,000 or so American applications per year. Canada currently has a population of approximately 700,000 Amercian expatriots, many with dual citizenship and many who are now exclusively Canucks). Since the election,those numbers (inquiries with Canadian immigration services) have swelled to 165,000. How many of these people are "serious" about joining the Canuck ranks remains to be seen. There are also many American families concerned with rumours of a future draft implemented by the Bush administration, and are set to "pull out" and head to Canada rather than having their sons forced to go to war in Iraq (and quite possibly, Iran). I understand many in the U.S are upset by the results and future consequences as a result of the election, but by the time they are "processed" (if they are accepted that is; Canada has announced it will not accept applicants from the U.S who claim refugee status. Imagine an American claiming that!?) George will be close to leaving office. Canadian colleges and universities have received record numbers of American student applications. That particular trend started about 2 years ago. Mnay of these Americans cite the erosion of individual rights and liberties. as their primary reason for wanting to emigrate.
Mnay are frustrated and angry over the Bush administration and their views on abortion,
womens rights and gay rights, to name a few.
I must admit, many Canadians are rather shocked at the right-winged stand Bush and Cheney are taking on these issues. Again, in my opinion, there appears to be an ever narrowing gap between Church and State in the U.S.

Conversely, many Canadians who moved to the U.S are now making plans to return home, as they can longer abide by the political agenda there.
I have often wondered how it would be for me if I moved to the U.S. I travel there frequently for business, but 2-3 days does not make for a well-rounded view. I must admit, I (like many Canucks) feel as if I'm in a completely different environment while there ("A whole different animal!") and to be honest, I don't know if I would ever completely feel at home in Amercia. Barbara, PLEASE don't misinterpret my views negatively! I LOVE certain areas of the U.S I have come to visit time and again. I'm merely growing more and more concerned with what I see happening there.

Well, enough of that. Here I am, not the most political person in the world, posting lengthy
political views!

It's time for an espresso coffee. I cannot wake up until I've had at least two. Can you spell, hyperactive? :-)

Barbara, it's a true pleasure "chatting" with you. You strike me as a decent, intelligent woman who has integrity and warmth, and God only knows, strength (that goes for your family as well). I realize the tragic circumstances which "led" me to your site, however, it is nice to have the opportunity in this more than often cold, impersonal world, to reach out and make a friendly connection with someone who makes the effort more than worth it.

More later.

Your " Travellin buddy" from Canada
J.O

J.O should learn to review his posts for spelling and grammatical errors! Otherwise,
you fine Amercians will think we Canucks are rather illiterate! :-)

And by the way, it's "expatriate", NOT "expatriot". Dear God, this will teach me to wait until my espresso is in my system when
writing in the a.m.

"Hooked On Phonics works for J.O".

J.O., LOL don't worry about your spelling errors! I have a ton of them and I'm able to edit my posts! I didn't even notice them.

It's not that I'm not interested in politics but just apathetic about voting at this point in my life. Maybe if a candidate came along who was a little different or had some exciting postive ideas I might feel differently. I didn't think either candidate in the recent election fit that bill. They both ran very negative campaigns. If the democrats had run a stronger person with some fresh ideas, I think they would have had a good chance as I'm not sure that George W. is really all that well liked in this country. Believe it or not but most Americans are not pro-life for example. I would also guess that most Americans are very unhappy with the current administration getting us involved in Iraq, even those that voted for him. There was really no real candidate that represented most American's more moderate views. Kerry ran such a negative campaign and never really did say what he was going to do differently from the current administration.

When Mark and I were first married, 28 years ago this past 9/11 (our 25th anniversary fell on THE 9/11) we were both very excited when Jimmy Carter ran for office and won. Unfortunately he ended up being a huge disappointment but we admired him for his honesty, integrity, and intelligence. I don't think we've been excited about the choices ever since that time though we both always voted up until Tara was killed. We thought that Joe Leiberman would have been an excellent choice and his views made a lot of sense to us. We would probably have actually gone out and voted for him. He didn't do very well in the primaries much to our surprise.

J.O. thanks so much for posting. I've enjoyed our exchanges. You seem like such a kind human being with a good heart.

Barbara

Dearest Barbara,

Merci, Madame, for overlooking my spelling and grammatical boo-boos. There is nothing more frustrating (well, there is) than re-reading what one has posted after hitting "post now".

I agree with you and Mark in regards to Jimmy Carter. Mind you, I was a mere pre-teen when he was in office (can you say, "Tiger Beat
Magazine", "The Brady Bunch" and "The Partridge Family"?) and it's been in hindsight that I have come to learn that his presidency was not a total success, for lack of a more harsh term. But, that said, I, like you have much admiration for this warm, fine man, especially in regards to his selfless nature and wondeful dedication to his humanitarian work carried out throughout the globe. Kudos to Mr. Carter.

I recall watching excerpts of Ronald Reagan's funeral, and seeing the Carters seated alongside the Fords and Clintons. Looking upon these ex-presidents and former first ladies, it was Jimmy and Rosalynn I kept coming back to. I was especially pleased when Mr. Carter was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2002, and I'd very much like to think that Mr. Carters post-presidency legacy will be the one he shall be deservedly remembered for.

J.O's segway of the day: Barbara, you MUST get your hands on "Nancy: The Unauthorized Biography", penned by one Ms. Kitty Kelly (In Canada, we refer to this blonde spitfire as "Kitty Litter Kelley". Written in 1990/91, this shocking bio of one Nancy Davis-Reagan is scathingly brilliant. It's shocking, It's revealing, it's a damn hair raising page turner. Now, one realizes Ms. Kelley is no Hemingway or London, if you will, but damn can this woman unearth the dirt.

End of segway.

One aspect of the election that dumbfounded me was the numerous references made to Kerry's "too intellectual" approach, ie speaking above the minds of the masses and not directly "to them". On CBC Radio (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, which I'm sure you have come to know about) many talk show hosts felt Kerry should have toned down the high-brow rhetoric and followed George Bush's lead in speaking in simplistic terms to identify with voters, who in turn would not be intimidated by words, phrases and ideologies alien to them. On one level, I can comprehend this school of thought; on the other hand, I found this argument/observation to be a rather sad testimony to what has become of the human mind. Ahh, then again, I suppose it's always been as such, no? After all, there always has been, and there always will be, the food chain.

LOL, George Bush met the masses on their level by speaking in good-ole-boy, homespun tongue.
As if Mr. Bush had to struggle to withhold his evolved mind! And that is about the only wry, humourous item I can pinpoint re Mr. Bush. I don't know what these 4 years will bring for America, but I am very fearful, as I have stated before, of the erosion of American rights and liberties, etc. Mr. Bush and co., in my somewhat dramatic opinion, are steering the U.S back to the Middle Ages, the Dark Ages, while many countries in the world have moved forward in terms of social progress and acceptance. Hmm, I wish I could come up with a bad analogy in regards to G.W. Let me ponder this and give my feeble mind a shake and bake.

That is not to say absolute Utopia exists outside the borders of the U.S. Far from it, and Canada itself has critical items on its own agenda that need addressing and ratification. Travelling this globe, I can attest to the fact that I have seen great progress made in many countries, while others represent true anarchy and heartbreak (Sudan, Russia to name two) The European Union has made great strides in reforming and implementing positive, progressive social agendas, but they do have a long way to go. And for God sake, will the BBC
and Fleet Street lay off Charles and Camilla? If they want to live together, let em. Life's too short for we to sit, martinis in hand, and argue such idiocy.

LOL....is it just me, or do I come across as a flip-flopper!? LOL. Ahhh, no, I am not a flip-flopper. Or am I? *wink*

Ah, the U.S is still one fine nation, with much to admire and respect. I'll tell you, I would
seriously give consideration to spending more time in San Francisco/Sausalito-Marin County in a heartbeat if things were different in the U.S.
Can you say "Rice-A-Roni, the San Francisco Treat?". Betchya can.

Well, my dear, it's time for me to take my leave for the moment. Thanks very much for your kind words. I am most appreciative of your appraisal of one J.O. I too very much enjoy our exchanges. But I must admit that I've been known to be a rascal and a radical, too!

In closing, I recall the tune sung by Carol Burnett at the end of her long running CBS comedy/variety series.

"I'm so glad we had this time together,
Just to have a laugh or sing (or not) a song.
Seems we just get started and before ya know
it,
Comes the time we have to say......
So long." (for now).
J.O tugs on his left ear lobe.

Have a great day, Barbara!

P.S: Barbara, in regards to you and Mark being married on 9/11, well, all this guy can say is
woman, get thee to a drive-through chapel and renew them vows. No need to dress up, no need for all the bells and whistles. Why, you can even stop off at Taco Bell prior to hitting the
drive through chapel.

Cheers from The Great White North.

Mr. J.O

My God! Did I write all that above?

J.O's words of the day: EDIT/PARAPHRASE

quote:

---

P.S: Barbara, in regards to you and Mark being married on 9/11, well, all this guy can say is
woman, get thee to a drive-through chapel and renew them vows. No need to dress up, no need for all the bells and whistles. Why, you can even stop off at Taco Bell prior to hitting the
drive through chapel.

---

Believe me, we've thought about that or just changing the day we celebrate it altogether. Unfortunately it is also the day that Tara's high school chose to have a memorial service for her so it's been a sad occasion for us for a while. Strangely the pieces they picked to play at the service were many of the same that we chose to use at our wedding-Bach. Very eerie.

VICKI ROBERTSON:
The president gives thanks
CBC News Viewpoint | November 30, 2004 | More from Vicki Robertson


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Vicki Robertson grew up in the Halifax area, with close ties to the military. After traveling for many years, Vicki and her husband Alan settled in Bedford, Nova Scotia. While working full-time in the IT industry, she satisfies her curiosity about life and her love of education by attending Mt. Saint Vincent University as a part-time student.


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U.S. President George W. Bush is coming to Halifax to thank us for how we responded to the tragic events of Sept. 11, 2001. Miss Manners I'm not, but I believe "thanks" should come a little closer in time to the good deed. Check with Martha Stewart on her next visitation day, but I think she'd consider three years beyond the grace period.

Of all the ghastly coincidences, I was at the hardware store buying refills for an Exacto knife when I heard the United States was being attacked. The skies had to be cleared of all air traffic, and Halifax was among the cities overwhelmed with stranded passengers. We shared our homes, offices, grief and outrage.

Atlantic Canada has long, rich ties with our American neighbours. Each year, we send a colossal tree to Boston at Christmas. It's our perennial Hallmark card for their support after the Halifax explosion almost 90 years ago.

Hurricane Juan elicited another kind of response. Power crews from Maine tirelessly worked to help Nova Scotians get our lives back to normal. And when Swissair 111 went down off our coast, people opened their homes to the grieving relatives.

The international media praised us for doing what comes naturally – helping others in their time of need. Still, Atlantic Canadians have a complex. "It will be great to see us on the map," said one suburbanite when asked how she felt about the Bush visit.

"It's nice to get recognized," added another.

When the leader of the free world shows up on your doorstep, it's easy to be star-struck.

Canada has serious differences with the Bush administration. Our idea of a just society doesn't fit with their ideology of small government, low taxation, and pre-emptive strikes. Nova Scotia is home to the Pearson Peacekeeping Centre, and one of our universities offers a program in Peace and Conflict Studies. Not everyone is thrilled with the president's arrival.

"He's a war monger," is a common response to the name George Bush.

Moments after the announcement of Bush's visit, my in-box filled with rallying cries from protesters. The demonstrations promise to be dramatic and noisy, with a mock trial as the centerpiece.

But will the generosity of Nova Scotians on Sept. 11 be put on trial as well?

When I heard Bush was coming, I took to the streets to talk with Haligonians about the visit. Many of them considered protests either a waste of time, bad publicity, or downright frightening. Even those on campus – the hotbed of civil disobedience – were dubious. "Like it or not, he's the president for the next four years," a university student told me. "Protests won't change anything."

Some feared Canada would too easily fall into lockstep with the Americans. "We've finally made decisions independent of the U.S. I'd hate to see us go back to where we were." But when asked if this visit is good for Canada-U.S relations, most people here said – definitely.

With all our differences, we do agree on some things, including the need for a strong economy and low unemployment on both sides of the border. More than 80 per cent of Canada's exports go to the U.S., making them our best customer. Protesting against President Bush is like Tim Hortons employees picketing the police station.

Our military has also become a sticking point in cross-border relations. Canada's defence expenditure per capita pales next to our neighbour's, and they're getting persnickety about it. They insist we hold up our end of the NATO bargain. Until the hockey strike, at least we could rely on the Saturday night empties-turned-missiles as part of our arsenal.

Speaking of bargains, I had a great one as a kid. My next-door neighbour was a big, tough defenceman on the local hockey team. The schoolyard thugs knew better than to pick on me because they'd have to deal with him. In return for my peace of mind, he got fresh-baked cookies.

We did have our disputes. For example, he liked to practise lacrosse against the outside wall of our house. Thump, thump, thump. Then his friends would join in. Thumpity thump, thumpity thump, thumpity thump. To solve the crisis, I would offer up treats, and the pounding would stop. Conflict resolution 101: distract your foe with kindness.

Life's lessons didn't end there. I admit to pulling some boneheaded stunts that have cost me friends over the years. But the ones who took me aside, voiced their displeasure, and were still there for me meant the most. To this day, I rely on those friends for advice and support, and I consider their feelings before I do anything rash.

Bush could do a lot worse than appreciate that honest, loyal friends in Nova Scotia can be a powerful force, even for the leader of the free world and the mighty power of its arsenal.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_robertson/20041130.html

If anyone from Canada reads on this site- how did that visit go? Had a friend meet him a year or two ago and didn't like him at all. Said he believed what he believed, was extremely dogmatic and generally not open to new ideas.